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Mafia Nuzlocke Survivor Sinnoh Mafia (Kesha's War against the Trial Mods)

Extravanganza Accordian Demo
Thread Description
what the hell is this title | n2

EeveeFTW

The man, the myth, the Eevee
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745
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Loudmouth being first claim and eating the sniper shot is stupid what. Like we're throwing away someone with an actual useable ability for what? A named villager with a gun? That's pointless. Deputy is 1000% our first claim to eat the sniper shot. Like, I basically have the same ability as the deputy rn. Not to mention we have a role that can give away guns every phase. Deputy is by far the least useful of them all. Loudmouth either forces mafia to use their big system hack or lose a mafia member if we keep them alive. Why on earth would we get rid of that????

A much more reasonable argument is for loudmouth second, which I could see, but I do still prefer cop. The existence of tailor makes all cop invests kinda shaky anyway, and mafia can't actually do anything to our active claim after the sniper shot disappears until doc dies so...

To sum up the loudmouth side of it though:

Non-loudmouth claim: Loudmouth is hidden, if mafia hit loudmouth, they lose a mafia member. They can't system hack this either since they don't know when it's coming. Mafia also risks hitting loudmouth if they tailor villagers. Doctor can also mindgame and protect different targets.
Loudmouth claim: If mafia hits doctors actual target they lose a nk. Loudmouth can't be given guns to be our public shooty boy.

Also loudmouth is only a potential detriment to village if village pr's aren't connected. Since like, then we can set it up so no one visits the loudmouth.
 

Zaazaa0

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In 1989 Dawkins commented, 'The word meme seems to be turning out to be a good meme' (Dawkins 1989).
Oh right, using Loudmouth as a "get a free mafia if they happen to kill Loudmouth by accident" is a pretty good move too. Hmm...

I think we're just in a uniquely good claim scenario all things considered, which is weird for a game with a Sniper. We have a lot of options that put us in vastly different scenarios, so let's think this through a bit more.

Eevee's Deputy -> Cop idea is pretty good. I would have preferred Gunsmith claim second if not for the fact that we want the guns to be given to the clear, and the only clears we can do that with are Cop and Deputy. So if we're sacking Deputy to the Sniper, Cop is our only option. And in a game with a Tailor, risking our Cop like that doesn't sound like the worst thing.

The downside of Deputy -> Cop is that Cop can be counterclaimed, and then our only remaining claim options are Gunsmith, Loudmouth, or no claim at all. In that scenario, neither of our potential claims would be able to receive guns, which is not ideal. And no claim at all while Loudmouth is still alive means all the village PRs are at risk of visiting the Loudmouth and getting outed. If instead of all that, Loudmouth is our Sniper sacrifice, then Deputy can go unCCed (Akane mentioned the mafia BP being able to CC Deputy but that's extremely shaky, since Deputy could just announce a specific time they'll shoot to prove themselves and mafia can't really do anything about that).

So our options as I understand them are:
1. Deputy -> Cop (keeps Loudmouth hidden, but vulnerable to mafia CCing Cop leaving us with no more possible clears who could receive guns)
2. Loudmouth -> Deputy (less vulnerable to CCs, but sacrifices Loudmouth instead of saving them for a free kill on the mafia)
3. Deputy -> Loudmouth (mafia would have to either sacrifice someone or use their one and only system hack to kill the clear, but the clear can't receive guns)

I'd like to hear more discussion on these options, or any other paths if there's something I didn't think of.
 
Last edited:

Kit_The_Feef

Someone who draws too much ¯\_(ಠωಠ)_/¯
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Comic artist. Idiot. Has far too many active projects for his own sanity. Unreliable when it comes to updates on his non-comic endeavours.
I like Deputy->Loudmouth, personally.
Will start by claiming NOT deputy
 

Zaazaa0

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In 1989 Dawkins commented, 'The word meme seems to be turning out to be a good meme' (Dawkins 1989).
I said I would like to hear discussion, Feef. Don't start claiming shit until we know which path we want to take.

Care to explain why you prefer Deputy -> Loudmouth?
 

hobohunter

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Don't worry gang: REAL mod hobo is here. None of those sad pathetic trail mods. You got yourself a legit mod to save the day.

As for things that have been said, I was gonna initially just be like "ez loudmouth claim" but then I liked eevee's point and posts so I'm officially on the Deputy>Cop claim train.

As for people, initial suspicions make me suspicious of Zorua. I have literally nothing for this. Just his one post rubbed me the wrong way.

Vote: Zorua
 

Akane

999
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This pokèmon has a strange passion for the number 9, I wonder why. Bisexual.
Guys ok quick post cause of school later I'll post a scumhunt but don't claim cop in the thread like what
Claiming cop in the thread is the freest cc ever for maf
Either Deputy into Loudmouth or Loudmouth into Deputy
Leaning towards Loudmouth into Deputy cause of guns. The only scenario that gives us free gunshots every day, cause of the Gunsmith giving guns to the deputy. Seems obviously the best one.
I thought the deputy could shoot only during the night phase, which is why I thought it could be ccd, but apparently the role doesn't work like that so
Yeah
Loudmouth into Deputy please.
 

CasualGameFreak

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Despite being a Grass-type, Casual is a flaming lesbian. Fire and Grass don't usually mix, but somehow it works out here.
Hey, wait a minute, wasn't there a Mafia game I joined?

AW FUCK FORGOT TO HIT WATCH THREAD

Anyway, hi, I'm here. Did a read through thread, probably gonna have to do another read to get reads on people.

Immediately, Cape's suggestion of Cop getting into contact with a clear target is just... no. I don't want to leave even the slightest room for fuckups like "oops i just gave everything away to a mafia member because i hit the tailor'd target n1". That shit is very very bad. I'm actually getting a mild town read off this but still please no this is a terrible idea.

With regards to claims, I suppose I'm most in favor of Loudmouth --> Deputy but I'm also alright with Deputy --> Loudmouth.
 

theCape

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Seems to always be starting a new campaign/project despite not having enough time.
3. Deputy -> Loudmouth (mafia would have to either sacrifice someone or use their one and only system hack to kill the clear, but the clear can't receive guns)
I like Deputy to Loudmouth. If town is connected, I'm sure they can find out a way to hand out the gun safely with analysis and forcing the mafia to use their rewrite against Loudmouth means that we know that was the only host information that was faked, rather than second guessing every other post.





Votes
Zorua (2): greenchu, hobohunter
greenchu (2): Akane, Salt&PepperBunny
EeveeFTW (1): EeveeFTW
apocalypsewriter (1): Sparklepop
No votes: Zaazaa0, apocalypsewriter, Zorua3, CasualGameFreak, theCape, Kit_The_Feef, KirbySSU, 0 Anonymous, Alolan Floatzel, SweatingCalendar
 

0 Anonymous

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Good morning
Kesha's point is interesting
because there's a question of what it means that a host message can be edited ahead of time. If Mafia learns beforehand that loudmouth would trigger before it does, or that a block would happen before phase swap due to doc, or that a gunshot was about to ring out that would kill a mafia or snipe a villager, what the fuck can we do against that ability?

for example @KirbySSU are you dead?
 

Zorua3

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I'd copy-paste the Zorua Pokedex entry, but I'm too lazy.
I REALLY like the idea of having a public gunner, given that the alternative (assuming a Deputy -> Loudmouth claim) would be either giving them to our Doctor and risking them being revealed when they shoot, or giving them to random villagers and risking them being Mafia (the hidden Cop’s invests in the case of Loudmouth/Deputy claim would probably help with this, but there’s going to be constant doubt thanks to Tailor)

Since we’re concerned about a Cop CC, I have to ask—isn’t Loudmouth a CCable role as well?
Claiming cop in the thread is the freest cc ever for maf
This is true, but Loudmouth is in the same boat. Unless I’m missing something, the only way we could prove which of the Loudmouth CCs is true would be to have one of our visiting roles check them out, which has the fun side effect of outing them to Mafia if they hit the real Loudmouth and not the CC. And this process would also take an extra night vs the standard CC lynch/shoot and would have the possibility of System Hacker rigging it. In other words, I don’t think it would be viable for us.

All that being said, I think Loudmouth is a more valuable role for us than Deputy or Cop-in-the-game-with-a-Tailor, so I agree that they should either claim second (benefit: mafia has to use hacker to kill them), or not at all (benefit: mafia gets outed if they kill loudmouth).
 

Sparklepop

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Filled with boundless creativity and a mane of stars, Cosmicore is only seen once in a blue moon, showing the world what it has to offer.
Y’all be posting while I'm asleep. Welp looks like I have read up on the thread and put my thoughts down.

So, I don’t know too much about these roles or how they’ll play out in the game, but I think that Deputy should claim first then Loudmouth. Deputy only gets a single kill, while Loudmouth can potentially hook a Mafia visitor. As for why I sussed Greenchu. I thought he was acting strange, at first, but now I’m not so sure.
 

EeveeFTW

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Yeah uh loudmouth can be cc’d just as easily as cop. Except in the cop situation, mafia has to worry about eventually losing a player to loudmouth. Also keep in mind as annoying as a cc is, it’ll be a guaranteed maf out of the way. If we do deputy > cop, and they cc cop, they’ll be losing one to the cc along with the potential one to loudmouth.

Also if a cc does happen I can shoot one (with village support), which resolves the cc, and we go to the next claim (gunsmith imo).

The benefits of having loudmouth as our village lead are kinda weak too? In comparison to having a free potential maf? Like, it frees up doc to do whatever they want and gives something for mafia to use system hack on (a use that’s pretty great value to them) but that’s it.

To reiterate, if mafia try to nk/tailor loudmouth, they’ll have one of their members publicly revealed. They can skip this with their system message, but only if loudmouth is public.

Deputy > Cop is 100% the way to go.

Also I feel like we should claim the search guns? I’m surprised those haven’t come up yet.
 
OP
Cirr

Cirr

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Fails Captchas with regularity
I've been asked this, so here it is

tailor is slower than cop

you'll have to wait for a few more hours for a full speed list
 

theCape

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Seems to always be starting a new campaign/project despite not having enough time.
Also I feel like we should claim the search guns? I’m surprised those haven’t come up yet.
I thought Kesha claimed those?

tailor is slower than cop
In that case, cop's investigation last night is 100% accurate and should be followed up on in some way.
 

SweatingCalendar

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These creatures are often seen inciting wars with the couch potatoes over territory of farmland so that they can have the most sheep for counting
So looking through the thread here are my thoughts:

  • The 3rd party giving 2 guns instead of one means we always know which guns are real. I would advise that whoever gets the 3rd party guns to not shoot them while the 3rd party is alive. Right now unless both the 3rd party & gunsmith die, they are the only way to kill Kesha (the role), we want them to keep visiting ppl to narrow down the possible Kesha targets (which isn't the most useful of info but hey, its still info), them leaving the game for that reason is more advantageous then if we let them win cuz we used all their guns. After the 3rd party leaves or dies, I would be more open to taking the risk of using them, but as of right now ppl should hold off using them (and if ppl want to claim to have recieved guns that will be super helpful to us)
  • Eevee, Ik you said you would shoot the gun ~halfway through the phase, but can you wait to shoot it until we (assumably) connect the PRs? The only reason I suggest this is cuz we don't want to shoot our PRs on accident (if you've said this in a previous post then I apologized for missing it)
  • In terms of claims I like the Deputy > Loudmouth, Loudmouth is basically mafia kryptonite. They can't nk them, & it puts them in a tricky spot with their sniper cuz they have to shoot the Deputy, cuz if they let the Deputy collect claims then the Loudmouth remains hidden which the mafia can't risk. I think optimally we have to force the mafia to waste their resources. After once the Loudmouth claims, the only way for mafia to kill them is to trade one of their own nking the Loudmouth,or get lucky with the Gunsmith giving them a gun (@Cirr do guns have a 50% chance of revealing the shooter?), if they have a chance of revealing the shooter have to gamble a 50/50 on top of getting lucky receiving the gun.
 

greenchu

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Alright, so assuming there are no gun counterclaims, we know:

greenchu (player) isn't @search
greenchu (player) isn't Kesha (role)
What makes you say any of that?

This scares me. The longer the game goes on, the more we'll have to treat the flips as unreliable. I'm hoping that Cop connects with the person they investigated last night since there's the best chance of them being safe.

Actually, if we're looking for someone to connect the power roles, whoever Cop investigated may be a good pick, if they came up town?
This is actually a super good point. If Cop got a Village result last night, there's an almost 95% chance that it is trustworthy (assuming Tailor has higher priority than investigation). If this is the case, Cop should reach out to that player. If the target goes public that is slightly risky because if they're a PR mafia might target them because they're a mouthpiece, and if they're Villager there is a chance they become the Turncoat. If they are a PR, then that should hopefully help us sort out CCs too when we have our clear.

This seems like a bad idea for as long as Tailor is in the game? We should be treating investigation results as if there's a Godfather in play... or, like, a reverse Godfather, depending on whether mafia is disguising one of their own as village or disguising one of us as mafia.

Edit: or MULTIPLE, permanent reverse Godfathers. I'm not opposed to using Cop results to make judgements but being so bold as to have them contact anyone who tests village sounds like a great way to out themselves to a Tailored Mafia
This kinda rubs me the wrong way. Investigation N1 is basically 95% accurate. N2 is basically 80-90% accurate. Tailor is going to disguise themselves first as Village, then the rest as Village, then village players as mafia. Could they do something different? Sure, but that's probably the most straightforward way for them to hide their tracks and give us the least amount of information. Actually now that I think about it, they could have Tailored another mafia player in anticipation of them acting as a cc to a certain role. Idk, but the point still stands.

Yes in the long run we can't trust investigation, but N1 and N2 we can probably be fine with.

Zorua's post also seems kinda weirdly measured to me? Like something that would be posted to a maf chat and asking "does this look good?" Not saying that it for sure is, but it gives me that vibe. Hobo seems to somewhat agree with this.

So our options as I understand them are:
1. Deputy -> Cop (keeps Loudmouth hidden, but vulnerable to mafia CCing Cop leaving us with no more possible clears who could receive guns)
2. Loudmouth -> Deputy (less vulnerable to CCs, but sacrifices Loudmouth instead of saving them for a free kill on the mafia)
3. Deputy -> Loudmouth (mafia would have to either sacrifice someone or use their one and only system hack to kill the clear, but the clear can't receive guns)

I'd like to hear more discussion on these options, or any other paths if there's something I didn't think of.
1. As you mentioned, not only is Cop really easy to cc, but mafia could go for the gigachad brain play of the fake Cop reaching out to a player and saying they investigated them to earn their trust. Yes Cop is less useful in the long run, but it's still reliable enough in the short term imo. Worst case scenario, keeping them around is a good target for Gunsmith.

2/3. I guess I see the merits in keeping Loudmouth alive and not public. I still favor Loudmouth -> Deputy because there is nothing mafia can do about it other than cc the Loudmouth. Which, isn't that the purpose of keeping Loudmouth alive and not public? To catch a mafia?

I thought for a moment I actually changed and instead favored Deputy -> Loudmouth. Mafia must use Sniper on Deputy and must use hacker on the Loudmouth kill... But what happens with the cc?

@Cirr Okay here's a scenario. If mafia edits the start of a new day host message and in it doesn't reveal who died, do we have any way of knowing who died that phase later in the game? Would you be obligated to stop us from trying to vote for a dead person?

Because if not, mafia could theoretically indefinitely prolong a 50/50 if they kill the real Loudmouth and edit the death out of the message, and their cc stays silent (won't die from inactivity due to night action).

Immediately, Cape's suggestion of Cop getting into contact with a clear target is just... no. I don't want to leave even the slightest room for fuckups like "oops i just gave everything away to a mafia member because i hit the tailor'd target n1". That shit is very very bad. I'm actually getting a mild town read off this but still please no this is a terrible idea.
It's basically 95% accurate N1, which means we should 100% trust it. Occam's Razor and all that. I'd say this post is scummy, but I was wrong about that last time so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

I don't know any reads but Mac seems Village and Akane is on crack as usual which probably means Village as well.

tl;dr I think Loudmouth -> Deputy is the simplest path forward that voids gigantic hacker mindgame fuckery.

Keeping my vote on Zorua.

L4bsumL.jpg
 

theCape

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Seems to always be starting a new campaign/project despite not having enough time.
What makes you say any of that?
I was under the apparently false assumption you had been targeted by search and gotten 2 guns. Looking back, there's no real evidence for it so...




does anyone want to claim that they were targeted by search and got the two guns?
 

0 Anonymous

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reiteration is lowkey meaningless but cop is faster than tailor so any village read has to be accurate for n1.

cc is a mess because of the tailor message, controversial take but given 3p can kill the BP what if we just force them to play pro-village and don't shoot guns period?
don't claim guns yet just to entertain the idea
 

theCape

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Seems to always be starting a new campaign/project despite not having enough time.
I mean, I'm not telling the person to shoot guns from search, just let us know who you are? If the target is town we get confirmation that they're not Kesha and even if it's not a ton of knowledge we at least know where they are.
 

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